We've been dancing around the religion subject in dozens of posts. It seems no one wants to step into that realm but here goes.
If you're a non-believer than looking to God or the Bible for answers doesn't make sense. If you're a believer than the Bible is your handbook and you try to follow it's guide. Many of the issues the US has have to do with whether you believe in God or not. So I think it would be a good idea to have an open discussion of things religious. Things like:
Is there a God? If so is there only one.
Evolution vs Creation
Is Jesus the Son of God?
Is the Bible true?
Is there a heaven and hell?
If so is there only one way to heaven?
For myself I was taught Darwin so I lean that way but have never really taken the time to look at anything else. I do think there is someone or something more powerful than myself but not quite sure how it all works in the big picture. Have a hard time with the truth of the Bible. Parting of seas and floods are hard to believe. Have a hard time also with the one way to heaven (if there is one). Doesn't seem right for the people who are raised in a different religion. And how do we know Christianity is the one way?
Just some thoughts. Would love to hear some logic on this subject.
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GiveOachance,
ReplyDeleteYour questions are age old ones that no one can answer for you. All we can do if tell you what we believe and why. You have to take a look at what is said and then come to your own conclusions. Otherwise; it will never be what you believe it will be what others have told you.
Take a look at the Bible. The main purpose for it is to tell the individual how to get right with God. Now if you don’t believe in God then it will never speak to you. The opening story is of Paradise created where man (kind) is in harmony with God, nature, others and himself. Sin (doing contrary to what God says) causes a disharmony with God, nature, others and self. It also brings death and separation from God.
The rest of the Bible tells us how we are made right with God again. It is told in poems, psalms, history, proverbs and parables. The Old Testament tells of God’s chosen people, the Israelites, and how the world was to be blessed by a deliverer or redeemer brought forth from their lineage. The parts of the Old Testament that so many people skip over are the different blood sacrifices. For the atonement of sins, blood was required to pay the price. The Sin Sacrifices in the Old Testament pointed the way to the one who would redeem the world.
The New Testament tells the story of that Redeemer, Jesus Christ. His blood sacrifice atoned for the sins of everyone who accepts it by faith. By faith we are put right with God and adopted into His Kingdom as Sons and Daughters.
Contrary to what many teach today, becoming a Christian doesn’t guarantee your life will be sweet and carefree. Neither does it mean that you will from that point one live a sinless life. The bumper stick reads, Christians are perfect, they are just forgiven.
We understand that we are separated from God. Religion answers how we are made right with him again. There are only two types of religion. One type is one of works. If I can only do enough good deeds I can make myself right with God. The other type of religion is faith. This realizes that we can never be good enough to earn our way back so we trust in the Gospel of the New Testament. That Gospel is stated clearly in Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. The faith issue is clear in Eph 2:8-9 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, [it is] the gift of God; not of works, that no man should glory.
Those who would be saved or made right with God need to do so by believing in who Jesus was and what He did. We take hold of believing by faith (read Hebrews chapter 11). Anyone who thinks that he will stand before God after he dies and will have done enough to earn his was back into Paradise restored will be in for a rude awaking. It doesn’t matter if you are Billy Graham or Pope John Paul, the only way back it by faith.
I’ve thrown a great deal of tenants at you here. If as you read the Bible you remember that it is God’s guidebook back to him, it will make more sense to you. Also, we don’t understand it because we are so smart. If the Holy Ghost doesn’t give you understanding, you will never understand it.
I’ve studied it for over thirty years and I still don’t have all the answers. I will say that whomever you receive information from, they need to be able to back it up with chapter and verse. Otherwise, it’s just I think or I feel and we all know the trouble that can get us into.
If you have a specific question I would be glad to share my understanding and why I believe it to be true.
Agrouchyoldman
Sorry, that should have read, Christains aren't perfect.
ReplyDeleteOK, lets start at the beginning. Was the earth created in 6 days or during the big bang? Is it evolution or creation? If creation what about the fossile record? I guess that's good for starters.
ReplyDeleteGood. I thought that maybe I had been to “preachy” and scared everyone away.
ReplyDeleteYour question is one that has haunted Christianity over the ages. It was brought to the forefront when Charles Darwin wrote about evolution. The six-day creation loss favor, even among Christians when the age of enlightenment began. No one wants to look foolish by believing what science has exposed as false.
It is also using the Bible as a science textbook instead of what it is intended to be. That is where Christians have gotten themselves into trouble in the past. I.e. The world is flat because some figurative language seems to say so or the sun revolves around the earth because the Bibles states that the sun rises in the east and sets in the rest. There is plenty in the Bible that science has proved to be true but the Bible isn’t a science book.
Is it possible to be a Christian and believe in either the six-day creation or the Big bang theory? The answer is yes. In one you are seeking to understand God with the human mind, the other you accept by faith. Besides, you also have the creation-evolutionists who believe that God got everything started and then let nature take it’s course. Were the six days really 24 hour days?
If I use the small “g” for god it point to the generic term. If I use the capital “G” for God it refers to the one true God.
So if I may. Let me direct the question back to your original post. Is there a God?
I believe above the storm
The smallest prayer will still be heard
I believe that someone in the great somewhere
Hears every word
Every time I hear a newborn baby cry
Or touch a leaf
Or see the sky
Then I know why I believe
From the song titled I Believe
Sociological studies show us that every civilization throughout the ages have had gods. It’s as if there is something engrained in our DNA that causes us to reach out to someone or something greater than ourselves. Carl Marx said that religion was the opiate of the masses. In the sense that we use painkillers to help us over the rough stops when injury causes us great pain and religion helps us make it through those though times, he was right. In the sense that it numbs the mind and prevents us from reaching our full potential, he was wrong.
Ps 53:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.
Is the person a fool because he has no intelligence or is he a fool because he has witnessed the creation and denies the creator?
Ps 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; And the firmament showeth his handiwork.
I would argue that the reason every culture has had a god is that when they look at the creation, they know that there was someone or something behind it. Even with the Big bang you have to ask who created the matter that caused the bang?
Once you decide that there is a god. You need to find out who or what God is.
Acts 17:23 For as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found also an altar with this inscription, to an unknown god. What therefore ye worship in ignorance, this I set forth unto you.
The Greek people of the Apostle Paul’s time were seekers of truth and knowledge. They were also superstitious. Therefore not wanting to annoy anyone god that might be able to do them harm or bring good to them, they put up a statute title the unknown god. If you read chapter 17 of the Books of Acts you will see how Paul introduces the Greeks to whom that unknown God is.
Once you come to the conviction that there is a God and that the God of the Bible is the one true God, you need to find out what he has to say to you. I would suggest that you find a translation that you are comfortable reading. I enjoy the language of the old King James version. You might enjoy the New King James Version, Good News Version, Revised Standard Version, etc. etc. Make sure that it is a translation and not paraphrased as many paraphrased versions loose a lot in the wording.
The Bible isn’t a science book even though you will find many scientific truths in it. It is a book about the relationship of God to his people. It is a book that tells us of paradise lost and how it will be restored.
A Grouchy Old Man
P.S. By faith, I believe in the six-day creation. I don’t deny that there were dinosaurs. There are footprints of dinosaurs and humans embedded in the same rock.
That's great but not really something I can hang my hat on. All you told me was it's in the Bible and takes faith.
ReplyDeleteDid we evolve from primitive life or is Richrad Dawkins all wet?
That is where the rubber meets the road. Since there is no solid evidence that man evolved from a lower form of primate you take either position on faith. You have faith that someday they will find the missing link and prove evolution correct or you have faith that someday God will show you who He is, the Creator of all things.
ReplyDeleteTo be a little flippant, would you rather believe that your ancestors just happened to crawl out of the ooze and evolve into a human being or you rather believe that there is a loving God/Creator had a plan, set things in motion and is still in control today?
The Law of Thermo-Dynamics states that everything goes from a state of being to a state of decay. Things don’t get better; they fall apart. If you plant a seed, from the day it spouts, it is destined to die. From the time a baby is conceived, even if she/he isn’t infected by disease of dies from other than natural causes, he or she will have a maximum of years before the body starts to fail and finally dies.
Richard Dawkins would tell you that there is no god and man is a product of a random set of events. What he will tell you is that one-day mankind will find the missing link and prove him right. I will tell you that the world and all of the very infinite details of DNA indicates that we are part of a superior intelligence plan. One day we will all see that Creator face to face. Both of those conclusions are based on faith.
The question was, is there a God. Dawkins says no and I say yes. Neither can prove the other wrong or himself right. Neither can convince you by words along. You have to be willing to delve into the Bible and see what if anything it has to say to you.
If you are still unsure if there is a God, it might help to get into the other questions that you originally asked.
Question: Is there a God? If so is there only one.
Answer: Yes, there is a God and there is only one true God.
We all have gods in our life. They are the things that we trust in above all else. It may be our own ability to solve any problems. It maybe money. If I have enough of it, it will care of my every need. It may be our youthfulness or our healthy strong bodies. It may be sex or drugs and the thrills they give. It may be the world itself. Instead of worshipping the Creator, some worship the creation. There is nothing wrong with being environmentally friendly. But the green movement is turning into a New Age religion with some of the same type fanatics that other religions have had down through the ages.
Question: Evolution vs Creation
Answer: This is a faith question that only you can answer. You have been forced feed the evolution side since grade school. Now it is time to get out your Bible and study the other side.
Shall I continue?
A Grouchy Old Man
Can't we believe that higher power created Evolution for man to find? I believe in Evolution 100% and I'm a sciences guy all the way. But I believe a higher power designed the universe that way.
ReplyDeleteWhy? So intelligent life would have something to strive for, something to enrich our lives with, for the thrust for exploration, and our drive for knowledge. But in the end will never know 100% until we pass on to the next stage.
I don't think anyone doubts evolution occurs. The question is, did man come from it? Darwin wrote Origin of Species 150 years ago. In it he stated that in the future man would discover fossils of the "missing" link. He also said that until man could discover how inorganic matter can become organic his theory would be false. So far after hundreds of thousands of fossil discovery's we still don't have the missing link and we still can't convert rocks into living organisms. Even Darwin would have to say his theory so far had not been proven but schools continue to teach human evolution as fact.
ReplyDeletePeople who say there is no proof of God and that it is all based on faith are the same people who place their faith on an unproven theory. We all believe in something. Even Atheists believe there is no God. It comes down to where does the preponderance of the evidence lie.
Not being raised in a Christian home I have had no preconceived ideas about God. It's just been the last 5 years I even cared and started asking questions, reading and discovering. When you don't have a belief in the Bible you can't use it for evidence. I went to archeology, science and history for my answers. I now believe the Bible is true as is God and have no problem using it as a reference source. Until you are ready to examine all pros and cons you really can't make an informed decision.
The amount of secular information confirming events in the Bible are amazing.
Pook said, “I believe in Evolution 100% and I'm a sciences guy all the way. But I believe a higher power designed the universe that way”. You fall into the category of an evolutionary creationist.
ReplyDeleteMarrs Candy Co. used to run and ad for their candy bars. It went something like this, “Sometimes you feel like a nut, sometimes you don’t. Almond Joy has nuts, Mounds don’t”. Evolutionary creationists are the same way. They want to believe in evolution and a higher power. That way they can stress one or the other or both, depending upon how the feel or to whom they are conversing.
I hope that I don’t appear to be condemning your position, I’m not. As I originally stated, you can be a Christian and hold this view of how the world began.
Tiredofthecrap said “I don't think anyone doubts evolution occurs. The question is, did man come from it?” That was well stated. I can tell by your post that you have been doing a lot of studying and answers have been revealed to you. I would add to you statement on evolution occurs but to what degree. The changes we see within a species but never a new species from another. Any jump in evolution is usually a mutation that doesn’t reproduce itself.
My question to Pook and Tireofthecrap would be this. What are your relationships to the creation and to the higher intelligence? How do we or can we interact with it?
The Apostle Paul would say to Pook, I see that you are wise and know that there is a higher intelligence. Come, sit, let me tell you all about Him.
GiveOachance : The next question on your list was “Is Jesus the Son of God”. If there isn’t a God then there can’t be a Son of God. If there is a God, and Jesus is His Son, what does that mean for you and me?
John 10:30-31 I and the Father are one. The Jews took up stones again to stone him.
Scripture teaches that Jesus was the Son of God. He was a son not as you are a son to your parents but son in His very essence. That claim is part of the reason why the Jews killed Him.
Mt 10:32 Every one therefore who shall confess me before men, him will I also confess before my Father who is in heaven.
Mt 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my father who is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother.
Galatians 4:3-7 So we also, when we were children, were held in bondage under the rudiments of the world: but when the fulness of the time came, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, that he might redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God sent forth the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father. So that thou art no longer a bondservant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.
You and I can be sons of God. Not as Jesus was as He is of one essence with the Father. We can become adopted sons and daughters of this Higher Intelligence, Creator, Redeemer and Sustainer of the universe.
Surely He didn’t just start everything in motions and now is sitting back watching everything unfold. The question is how is this accomplished?
The interesting and awesome thing about being His adopted children is how special that is. In the Hebrew culture of the Old Testament a father could disown his son but not his adopted son. When you are adopted someone makes a clear and informed decision on what they are doing. When adopted you know you were wanted!
ReplyDeleteI question Darwin also. I was taught in college about his theory and basically told it was true. Years later I learned the finch's and Haeckel's embryos did not prove what I was taught they did. I have yet to see evidence of one speices evolving into another.
ReplyDeleteSo if my only 2 choices are evolution or creation I would lean towards creation. Is there another option? So what about the 6000-10000 year old earth of the Bible compared to carbon dating of millions of years?
GiveOachance said...
ReplyDeleteSo what about the 6000-10000 year old earth of the Bible compared to carbon dating of millions of years?
Even carbon dating has proved to be faulty every now and they. I wish I could remember the story of a test done on a bone found in the back year. It ended up registering several thousand years old when in fact, it was an old soup bone that the dog had been chewing on. I would suggest searching the net for carbon dating error to see what come up.
Is there a heaven and hell?
If so is there only one way to heaven?
These were your last two questions from the original posting. Both of these questions have caused problems for the Christian apologist over the years.
Most people are OK with Heaven and maybe even hell when you are talking about truly evil people. They have no problem believing that Adolph Hitler or Stalin will end up in Hell. But then you add the second question and people get a little uneasy. Many times I have heard believers and non-believers say the same thing. I can’t believe that a loving God would send anyone to Hell. There have been several different ways to ease their consciences.
I. Reincarnation, people who don’t make it back into a right relationship with God are doomed to be reincarnated until they get it right.
II. There is no Hell. People who die without making the grade just ceased to exist. Not only do their bodies die, but also so dies their spiritual essence or soul.
III. Christianity is just one of many paths to a right relationship to God.
IV. There are others.
The misconception is that God wants anyone to go to Hell.
1Timothy 2:3-6 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; who would have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, one mediator also between God and men, [himself] man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a ransom for all; the testimony [to be borne] in its own times;
Mt 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into the eternal fire which is prepared for the devil and his angels:
God would have everyone be saved. He provided the payment by the final blood sacrifice of His only Son. Hell was designed for a purpose. Satan and his angels who rebelled are destined for there.
As I have said before, if I state that I think or I feel this is the way it should be, then I run into the danger of putting my wants above the expressed word of God. In First Timothy the writer states that there is one mediator between God and Man, that is Jesus Christ. It’s not Budda, it’s not Mohammed , it’s not the Delhi Lama, it’s not the Pope or even you local pastor.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh un to the Father, but by me.
Here Jesus is quoted as claiming to be the only path back into a right relationship with God.
John 10:1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
Here the “door into the fold of the sheep represents” Jesus being the way into Heaven where the followers, the sheep will stay. The thief represents other religions that claim to and attempt to gain access to the Father by another way other than what God has established.
Yes, there is a Hell and yes many people will be going there. They will not be going there because God wants desires it. They will be going there because they have rejected the one True Way and tried to make their own way. Or, they have rejected the fact that God exists at all. In doing so, they have elevated the creation (themselves) above the Creator (God) and brought condemnation upon themselves.
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned.
There are so many more verses that re-enforce the points that I am trying to make here. The only way to understand is to have a teacher that will sit down and share insights as you go along. This is why corporate Bible study on Sunday mornings or evening are so important. It allows you to sit and listened to someone learned on the subject. Then you can do as the Bereans did after listening to the Apostle Paul preach. Then went home, opened up their Scriptures to read to see if what Paul had preached was true.
Grouchy, the problem is if you're a non-believer or seeker all the Bible verses in the world won't convince a person until they are at the point of accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior. The Bible is not easy to understand until the Holy Spirit takes up residence inside you and makes the work come to life.
ReplyDeleteO, if there is a God that can make planets and stars, bring life from non life and send His Son by Immaculate Conception then that God could do anything, right? Adam was born (or created) a man (not a baby). So God did not start Adam from the beginning (conception). So why couldn't He have started the earth at an older age. He could have started the earth with a million year age and then put man on it. Carbon dating could be right and so could the Bible in this scenario.
Tiredofthecrap said...
ReplyDeleteGrouchy, the problem is if you're a non-believer or seeker all the Bible verses in the world won't convince a person until they are at the point of accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior.
There are those questions that are meant to only add confusion to the conversation. In Christianity two of the common ones are, “Did Adam and Eve have belly button?” and if God is so all-powerful creator, “Could He made a boulder so large that even He couldn’t pick it up?”
During the 80s, billboards and radio ads began telling the public ”I found it”. It didn’t tell you what “it” was. Finally “it” was revealed to be God, faith and forgiveness. One question that has caused disagreements between believing Christians is how is faith obtained?
There are two camps of thought on how that happens. The one believes that God has placed in each of us a need to get right with Him. Before people become Christian, they are searching for something bigger than they are; they just don’t know what “it” is.
The other camp would say that man in his natural state wants nothing to do with God. They are perfectly happy to go about their lives in ignorance (not stupidity) of God and God’s directions. Then the Word of God comes to them by whichever means it does and they are convicted and converted. They didn’t find God, God found them.
Granted, both scenarios require the individual, because of free will, to accept or believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ to be true.
GiveOachance is seeking information about God because he has heard, seen or read that some people believe that there is. But that doesn’t bestow faith upon him, it only shows him that there is something there.
Ac 18:8 And Crispus, the ruler of the synagogue, believed in the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.
Ro 10:17 So belief [cometh] of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
The Word of God comes to us when we sit in church and worship. It comes to us when we go to class for a Bible study. It comes to us when we hear Gospel songs. It is there when we watch Christian programs on the TV. It is there when a parent lifts a child on his/her knee and tells Bible stories. It is there as neighbors share during a cookout and it is there when quoted in this blog.
There are two types of words that we hear when we listen to God. One is Law and one is Gospel. The Law convicts and condemns. The Gospel is the “good news” that the payment for our sins has already been paid. These two types can both be found in the following verse.
Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death: but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Sin is doing all those things that are against the will of God. Not what I tell you they are but what He tells you they are in Scripture. The Gift is the payment for those sins that allows us to be adopted children of the Living God.
A bolt of lightning doesn’t come out of the sky and strike you making you a believer. God uses His Word, the words of Scripture to work faith in the hearts of those who will be saved. The working of faith and understanding is down by the Holy Spirit. That is why you can have two people read the same Bible and one believes unto salvation and the other one walks away in disbelief. The one received the gift from God and the other one resisted the Holy Spirit and turned away.
The best news it that as long as you have breath in your body, the Spirit of God will come calling, offering you the Gift for you to accept by faith. It doesn’t matter how many times you have turned him down in the past.
If you aren’t a believer but you want to find out what God has in mind for you, bow your head and say a little prayer. God will forgive you all of your sins if you ask Him to. Ask God to send His Holy Spirit to open your mind and heart to His Word as you read and study it.