Tuesday, August 25, 2009

Mandatory Circumcision?

"In an effort to reduce the spread of HIV, public health officials are considering the promotion of “universal circumcision” for all baby boys born in the United States."

If this becomes mandatory (like shots before entering school) I have some real problems with it. First, I don't believe the spread of HIV is an epidemic in the U.S. and 90% of cases are preventable. That's like the drug for girls that reduces the incidence of cervical cancer. That is a cancer that can be greatly reduced by not having sex with multiple partners. So we are giving drugs and surgery in place of teaching morals. Second, I don't want the government mandating to us what we have to do to stay healthy. Are we going to require cholesterol drugs for everyone so they can eat fast food? How about toupee's for those follically challenged so they don't get too much sun on the dome and get skin cancer. On second thought maybe we should all be required to live like the boy in the bubble so we never have an illness.

Another funny aspect to this is, many of these officials that know what's good for us are the same ones that think God should have no place in society. Do they realize that circumcision was done as a covenant between God and His people? Maybe the ACLU should file a lawsuit. This looks like it's promoting Christianity!


  1. Circumcision has nothing to do with Christianity. Europe has a lot of Christians, and I can tell you first hand that I don't know many who have been circumcised. Infact, most males in Europe are not... and forgive me, but I don't think that they have a major Aids epedemic. You want to reduce the spread of Aids, use a condom or obstain. I chose not to have my child cut, it seemed unfair to remove the most sensative gland on his body, one that most US males have no clue it ever existed. Also, I figure if most males in Europe go through life with little to no problems being uncut; it seems as if the system is not broken, so why try to fix it.

  2. Sorry Anonymous but you're wrong. God told Abraham in Genesis 17:10 "This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised."

    This wasn't the beginning of circumcision but was used by God's people as a covenant. Just because someone is circumcised does not make them a Christian any more than wearing a wedding ring means you're committed to your spouse.

    A covenant is a symbol of your heart. A wedding ring is to show the world you are off the market and committed to your spouse. Circumcision shows God our committment to follow His ways. Whether someone sticks to that covenant is another subject.

  3. Tiredofthecrap, you are partially right. God did tell the Israelites that they NEEDED to be circumcised as a sign of their covenant.

    Genesis 17:14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. It was a daily reminder who they were.

    The custom was being practiced at the beginning of the New Testament times as shown with John the Baptist.

    Luke 1:59 And it came to pass, that on the eighth day they came to circumcised the child; and they called him Zacharias, after the name of his father.

    Jesus, being raised in the Jewish custom would also have been circumcised. I believe that being circumcised is still a Jewish rite practiced today. There was a change made early in the Christian Church when Paul was sent to preach the Good News to the Gentiles.

    Acts 15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.

    Gentiles who were converted to Christianity didn’t have to become Jewish to become Christian

    Acts 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

    It was determined that non-Jewish people that became Christians were not bound to the ritual laws such as being circumcised or from not eating certain foods. The Christian was to have his/her heart circumcised by the Word of God.

    Many Christian look to Baptism as a replacement of being circumcised. The Jew could say that he was God’s. Being circumcised was a physical reminder of the covenant between him and God. Christians can say that they have faith and have been Baptized. Not Baptized unto Paul or Appollos but unto the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.

  4. I did not mean to spark a theological debate over circumcism, as that was not my main point, but rather I wanted to call attention to Obama's rational over why someone should be circumsized. Which was "In an effort to reduce the spread of HIV, public health officials are considering the promotion of “universal circumcision” for all baby boys born in the United States."

    The whole theological aspect completely deviates from the reasoning behind why Obama is stating that one should be circumcised. Although I find the Biblical references interesting, I always thought that Jesus was the new and everlasting covinant. I also find it interesting that our last POPE was from Poland... and I doubt very much that he was circumcised. I know none of my male inlaws are circumcised, my father, all my uncles, grandfathers (and their fathers), nor my son are circumcised... as we are not Jewish and the original covinant that was made in Genesis 17:10. We all were babtized as Jesus was by John. Theologically, I fail to believe that all of the above, including the Pope, will not be able to enter into Heaven dispite being outstandingly faithful catholics because they were not circumcised.

    My main beef (if you will) is the faulty logic and belief that being circumcised will reduce the likelyhood of contracting AIDS. If you want to reduce the likelyhood of contracting AIDS, don't have unprotected sex with an individual who has AIDS or obstain all together.

    Remove the religiouse aspect entirely, for circumcision became poular in the USA AFTER WWII -- and oh, by the way, durring WWII one sure way to tell if someone was Jewish was to have them drop their drawers. Catholics in Europe (and the US) were not circumcised durring this time. Talk to any US male above the age of 65 and you would be hard pressed to find a Catholic male who is circumcised... unfortunately, I have asked older males that I am friends with -- on second thought you might not want to do that -- its awkward and sometimes you find out way more info than you care to remember.

    I respect others viewpoint, and if you believe that God wants you to be circumcised... more power to you. I don't. I can't quote to you the passage why.. although thanks to the poster before this who was able to articulate with verse some of what I believe. Acts 21:21 and that which followed in the above statement.

    Being Circumcised, I believe, has nothing to do with being Christian... I know it has a lot to do with being Jewish, and I heard with being Muslum -- but I'm not sure. Being circumcised will do little or nothing to slow or prevent the spread of HIV, as contracting HIV has to do with a behavior....not the physical appearance of ones Penis.

    I fail to believe that being circumcised will do anything to prevent the spread of HIV. Changes in behavior, and how one looks at sex, will slow or prevent the spread of HIV. I know that I will NEVER get HIV moving forward -- and its not because I am circumcised. It is because I am married, and my wife and I are both HIV negative. So as long as I am faithful, and she is faithful, I will never get HIV. The spread of HIV is behavior based, and I know it is unpopular to take responsability for ones behavior in todays society. but one could learn a lot if they were taught that they are responsible for their ownactions, and it is not the duty of government to legislate society to the point that we are protected from ourselves. As soon as the Government (Obama) realizes that HIV is spread due to behavior, they can stop fixating on American penises and worry about their sworn constitutional responsabilities of protecting this country from foreign threats and promoting its economic well being.

    Sorry for being so long... the Anonymous from the original Anonymous post.

  5. Anonymous, you said what I said just longer. I agree HIV can be prevented by behavior as can many illnesses. The Biblical reference was just an after thought.

    Grouchy, I realize Jesus is the new covenant. I just found it interesting that they would promote something that Biblically had such meaning.

  6. 1 Corthians 7:18 Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised. This quote better reflects what Anonymous was stating. If he knew it was in the Bible or felt that that was the was it should be, I do not know.

    Anonymous, you said, “The whole theological aspect completely deviates from the reasoning behind why Obama is stating that one should be circumcised.” I have to disagree a little with you. Obama was the one who recently used the “R” word to support his position on health care reform. He didn’t use “R” as in RACE but “R” as in RELIGION. After all, aren’t we our brother’s keeper? Isn’t it our religious duty to provide for the have-nots?

    Jas 2:15-16 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

    Luke 10:34-35 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.

    So yes, we are to be our brother’s keeper. Right after Obama’s speech the religious left held meeting saying that it was our religious duty to support the reform. The difference is that in Biblical times, it was the church community that cared for the have-nots, not the government. When the giving and the receiving is done in the local arena, you have a lot less administrative costs and less fraud.

    But the point that I want to make is the point that both of you made. Circumcision isn’t going to stop the spread of AIDS anymore than sex education has stopped the number of unwed births. Obama shouldn’t be allowed to pick and choose which Scriptural verses he is going to use and which ones he is going to ignore.

    1 Corithians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

    Romans 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

    Romans 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.

    Obama wants to shame us into accepting his ideas of what Scripture means as to being our “brother’s keeper” but ignore what the Scriptures say about the number one reason AIDS was spread in the US.

    Romans 1:31-32 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death (Spiritual Death my comment), not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

    How far do you think Obama would get if he used these quotes to fight the spread of AIDS?

  7. god and religion do not have any place in society. period.

    it should be a personal and private affair, very much like what your parents decide to do with your junk. keep religion out of public, schools, out of sight, out of mind.

    I will cut your dick off anyway.

  8. Who ever decided religion doesn't have a place in society?

  9. for my circumcision should not be mandatory, the religious aspect is nothing this item ... but each who own opinion. once I had the opportunity to attend a conference on religion and its relevance called skin cancer symptoms, spoke at this conference is that religion was seen in the way that everyone would like or consider better ...